New Users How Did You Find Us?

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Menelmacar
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New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by Menelmacar »

New users, how did you come across this forum?
If you lack the vocabulary to hold a debate, it's easier just to lob a piece of concrete thru a store window.
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notageek
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Re: New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by notageek »

They haven't found us.
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated, until defeat has been accepted as a reality." -- Bruce Lee
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Smug
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Re: New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by Smug »

I recently installed Gentoo again for the first time in over a decade a couple of years ago. My reason for choosing Gentoo at the time was I wanted a workstation distro;
-that didn't use systemd init
-that allowed me to eaisly build everything from source and optimize everything for my hardware
-that would work with my non-standard hardware config (multiple GPUs, Sound cards/devices, input devices, and monitors)
-that allowed me to easily configure all my packages globally
-that let me cut "bloat" eaisly and avoid pulling in dependencies for shit I didn't use (thanks USE flags!)
-that let me eaisly apply patches/.diff files (thanks portage)
-that supported non-free drivers/software without nagging me (thanks portage)
-that supported flatpak/.deb (some shit I use requires this)
-that allowed me to sync my package manager via git
-that was rolling release
-that offered a low latency kernel for audio/video production
-that worked with my AV editing/production tools
-that could run the few games I play via emulation/VM/wine/proton
-that could support JACK instead of forcing me to use pulseaudio (bad latency can't use it for production work)
-that supported NT, DOS, and legacy Windows software from the 3.11-9x era
and many other reasons. Gentoo is pretty much the only one that ticked off all the right boxes.

Anyway, for the first 6 months I was happy and content. Ran multilib ~amd64 desktop profile with no problems. Updated every few days. Nothing would break. Everything worked. Didn't even have a reason to use the mailing lists, bug tracker, or IRC support channel. Everything I needed was on the wiki, the archwiki, or I could find a thread on the forums.

At some point shit started breaking every week. I noticed more and more systemd projects trying to automatically pull themselves into my system. Sure, systemd init was never in there but things like consolekit being abandoned for elogind, the tmpfiles switch over, and recently the death of eudev. It wasn't just systemd stuff either. There were lots of little annoying changes that seemed to happen for no good reason.

I started lurking the forums, bug trackers, gits, and mailing list more often. I started seeing a lot of things I disagreed with. I started noticing that people pushing for systemd init/projects were the ones maintaining all the non-systemd alternatives. I noticed people refusing PRs, sitting on major bugs/CVEs, and refusing any help what-so-ever. I noticed people making major changes to packages many other packages relied on instead of forking or starting new projects to replace them (ex libsvg making Rust a hard dependency).

I thought "Why not make librsvg for the new Rust version and let libsvg live on without requiring it so you don't break all that legacy software?" "Why not let someone else take over libsvg and continue to maintain it and move on to maintaining librsvg yourself?". Surely, if people want the Rust version that bad they'll start including it in their own software, right? Isn't this how we've done things for decades? Isn't this the best way to do it without pissing a lot of people off and breaking a lot of systems for those that didn't keep up with the dev channels? Just seemed to be done in bad taste imo and I saw it with many projects not just libsvg.

Then I saw entire forums being censored/deleted for no good reason while the people that censored them gloated about it on the mailing lists. One being a Google employee who posted at length about how he'd done a good thing and should be praised for it. How they should do more censorship in the future to "help the community be more inclusive".

Anyway, when I noticed all of that I got curious where all the banned people went because I knew a bunch of them were long time users of Gentoo Linux. I seek out people with experience so I can learn from them. I hate censorship of any kind especially on independent websites and when it's used against people that I know are good people. So I used a Russian search engine and searched around. It wasn't long before I found my way here and started lurking. Been lurking here for many months now. Registered because I saw some discussions I wanted to take part in.

Made an exception for this place. Usually, I avoid posting any place where I can't
-make posts anonymously
-register without having to use Google captcha
-register with a throwaway email address
Thankfully, you guys allow non-mainstream email addresses here. I let Google through the firewall to register than promptly blocked it again. Happy to see it isn't required on any other page. You guys should really consider getting rid of Google captcha and replacing it with one hosted locally. It isn't that hard and you wouldn't be feeding google data about everyone using this website anymore. I'd also love to be able to post anonymously even if I were required to be logged into an account at the time to do it.

Did I mention I type really fast? That's my long story about finding otw20. Hope to be posting with you guys for a long time. You all seem like a nice bunch and I'm sure I'll get better advice here than I ever would posting on the Gentoo forums. God bless and God speed.
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Smug
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Re: New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by Smug »

Smug wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:18 am <rant>
There I go again. Just wanted to add. I looked around at a lot of different boards and forums these last few months. I even tried posting stuff like this on them. Every time I was met with people that called me everything from retarded to troll. All because I didn't agree with some of the changes I was seeing to major software in Linux userspace. It feels like there is a cult of Red Hat/Pottering and Rust everywhere and if you dare criticize any of the software or standards they've produced or are pushing you're "just a hater" that needs to be banned.

I don't get that vibe around here. I get the vibe that you guys are chill, just want to discuss software (and other things), do not censor people, and can remain civil with each other even if you have major disagreements. That's why I've started posted here. This place reminds me of forums from the old days. When we could all have friendly chats and the mods wouldn't instantly ban you for going against the local hivemind.

God bless. I might as well just get started with the day's work. Obvious I'm not getting any sleep at this rate. Plus, if I do it now I don't have to do it in the high humidity/heat later. :)
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antae
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Re: New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by antae »

Smug wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:18 am-that allowed me to eaisly build everything from source and optimize everything for my hardware
I tried to reproduce a few vulnerabilities I found in bulletins, but these vulnerabilities didn't work because required (for vulnerability) options are disabled in my kernel. That's the additional huge "+" for compiling kernel with own config.
Smug wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:32 am I even tried posting stuff like this on them. Every time I was met with people that called me everything from retarded to troll. All because I didn't agree with some of the changes I was seeing to major software in Linux userspace. It feels like there is a cult of Red Hat/Pottering and Rust everywhere and if you dare criticize any of the software or standards they've produced or are pushing you're "just a hater" that needs to be banned.
Having own opinion, not inspired by anyone -- this is a gift of human nature, but being a part of hivemind is also natural for a human.
IMO no need to expect a truth in an hivemind, the outcome can be predicted before we step into that place.
Imagine you're sitting on a river bank, and watching at different technologies like ships slowly sail down the river. This will help to see a big picture.
My opinion ^_^ may differ from yours. That's OK. Difference makes us humans, not robots.
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Smug
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Re: New Users How Did You Find Us?

Post by Smug »

antae wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:09 am Having own opinion, not inspired by anyone -- this is a gift of human nature, but being a part of hivemind is also natural for a human.
Humans are naturally social. I just dislike when all other opinions are labeled wrong-think and anyone expressing them is automatically seen as an enemy or banned. I don't have problems with hiveminds as long as they're naturally formed and change over time. What I've been seeing on the web lately is anything but.
Imagine you're sitting on a river bank, and looking at different technologies like ships slowly sail down the river.
I've seen many technologies come and go. Usually praised as being the next big thing and then forgotten about a few years later. With some of the things I'm seeing lately this isn't the case. There is an obvious agenda and a lot of money being thrown behind things like Rust. I don't buy that Rust is safer than C, C++, or anything else. My experience tells me that in time major exploits and design flaws will be exposed in it. Already I see problems with things like crates. Where they've basically replicated the problems with modern webdev (npm) and used it within a systems programming language. I also dislike the fact that it requires me to use yet another compiler. A compiler that simply doesn't work on a lot of my older hardware. Their suggestion is always something like
Trust our binary and cross-compile for the tier-2 platform. It's a dead platform anyway!
I'll never forget the day Rust broke Firefox on one of my older PCs. A PC I used for over 15 years. It could still browse the web fine. It still ran emacs fine. I used it for webdev and even some multimedia work all the way up to 2015 or so. I used the computer to check that the websites I was making would still work on legacy hardware because I knew a lot of people were still using older PCs. Now most Linux distros won't even run on that old PC for various reasons. I'm forced to compile everything from source or use one of the BSDs. Right now I use OpenBSD on it.
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